While both our guests are lauded for their electric guitar chops, this episode is all about playing unplugged. Join Eric Johnson and Gretchen Menn for a wide-ranging conversation exploring ego, joy, musical growth, and how to get good tone. (Hint: it's about a lot more than gear!)
Thanks to ToneWoodAmp for sponsoring this episode. Learn more about their magnetically attached, game-changing multi-effects device for acoustic guitars at tonewoodamp.com — get reverb, delay, and more, no amp required!
Additional resources:
Support the show:
The Acoustic Guitar Podcast theme music is composed by Adam Perlmutter and performed for this episode by Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers.
This episode is hosted by Nick Grizzle, produced by Tanya Gonzalez, and directed and edited by Joey Lusterman. Executive producers are Lyzy Lusterman and Stephanie Campos Dal Broi.
The Acoustic Guitar Podcast is produced by the team at Acoustic Guitar magazine, including:
Special thanks to our listeners who support the show on Patreon.
While both our guests are lauded for their electric guitar chops, this episode is all about playing unplugged. Join Eric Johnson and Gretchen Menn for a wide-ranging conversation exploring ego, joy, musical growth, and how to get good tone. (Hint: it's about a lot more than gear!)
Thanks to ToneWoodAmp for sponsoring this episode. Learn more about their magnetically attached, game-changing multi-effects device for acoustic guitars at tonewoodamp.com — get reverb, delay, and more, no amp required!
Additional resources:
Support the show:
The Acoustic Guitar Podcast theme music is composed by Adam Perlmutter and performed for this episode by Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers.
This episode is hosted by Nick Grizzle, produced by Tanya Gonzalez, and directed and edited by Joey Lusterman. Executive producers are Lyzy Lusterman and Stephanie Campos Dal Broi.
The Acoustic Guitar Podcast is produced by the team at Acoustic Guitar magazine, including:
Special thanks to our listeners who support the show on Patreon.
But trying to find that beautiful tone that inspires you to play, it's not about thinking about the gear, it's just about finding ways to free yourself.
Nick Grizzle:Welcome to the Acoustic Guitar Podcast. I'm your host, Nick Grizzle, and in this episode I'm excited to share a wide-ranging conversation with Eric Johnson and Gretchen Menn. We talk about ego, joy, how to get good tone and, of course, guitars and gear. Before we get into it, I'd like to take a moment to thank our sponsor for this episode. Thanks to Tonewood Amp for sponsoring this episode. Tonewood Amp is a game-changing multi-effects device that attaches to any acoustic guitar. Get reverb, delay and more; no amp required. Here are some user reviews: This thing is fantastic. I cannot put my classical guitar down since I received my Tonewood Amp, playing my guitar without the unit on it now sounds stale. Turn on the unit and wow, it sounds like heaven on earth. Learn more at Tonewood Amp. com. While both my guests are lauded for their electric guitar chops, this episode is all about playing acoustic.
Nick Grizzle:Gretchen Menn is a guitarist and composer based in the San Francisco Bay Area. She writes, records, and performs original music and is the author of the popular instructional book the Way Music Works. She's also the guitarist in Led Zeppelin tribute band, Zepperella. Eric Johnson is among the pantheon of Texas electric guitar masters and might be best known for his Grammy award-winning rock instrumental "Cliffs of Dover". He's also an accomplished acoustic player with a signature Martin and several acclaimed acoustic-centric albums under his belt, and something that I took away from our conversation is that we're always growing. No matter what achievements or success may come our way, there's always more to learn, and we kick things off here with Eric Johnson sharing the guitar technique. He's currently learning and practicing.
Eric Johnson:When I write songs, I try to incorporate new ways of playing, you know, and I'm trying to just get better at the finger picking thing. I really wanted to use finger picks, especially a thumb pick, but I just can't. I've spent too long with a flat pick, you know. So then I either have to play with a flat pick to do that the finger picking thing, or you know, or just use my fingers. I'd love to play with a thumb pick, but I don't know if it'll ever happen. It just feels so foreign to me that I've been working on just keeping a rhythm. You know [demonstrates on guitar] , just learning to you know that kind of thing. You know, which is all sorts of stuff you can do and just keep it kind of going. And it was hard for me to learn how to do that and I'm still just kind of a beginner at it compared to a lot of people. You know so, but it's fun, it's fun to you know, work on.
Nick Grizzle:Wow, I love that. That, that keeping it humble attitude, that's cool.
Eric Johnson:Well, you know it's and it's interesting. You know you can live in your own bubble and and entertain yourself, you know. But I don't know there's a point where that just kind of exhausts itself. You know, and and you know, all of a sudden you, you look behind the curtains, you know like, you know like, and just see, wow, you know it's, it's, it's kind of an illusion to kind of live in that, you know. And so at some point I think, if you're lucky, I guess that bubble gets burst. You know, it might not be the most comfortable thing in the world, but it's very medicinal and therapeutic.
Gretchen Menn:How did you come to that, how does one have those revelations?
Eric Johnson:I think you just go out and you hear a lot of players, you know, you hear players that you can name players constantly that do any style of any selection of a style of music that you can have. You know, I don't want to say better than you, but that's, that's putting it back in that box. But maybe just more realized or whatever, I don't know. But I think and it's just that way with any players, like you mentioned Django, you know you're just like wow, I can do some of his licks, but I'll never be able to, in a liquid way, just alphabetically, speak that way. And that was what he did Stephane Grappelli Grappelli. They play in the hot club of France. It was just like liquid alphabet, right, and there are certain styles that I'm learning to be able to speak that way, but some of it's where you get little snippets of it, whereas some people that's just their alphabet. And I think realizing that and listening to Doyle and his finger picking stuff is just off the hook and I'm thinking well, you know, I mean just kind of walk away and be humble about it. Well, you know, I got my own thing, I play electric and I write songs and do my thing and you don't want to tear yourself down, you want to support yourself and be a friend of yourself. But I think also you just go wow, there's room for everybody and you're never going to have the corner on the market like that. And I just, I don't know, it was a process I guess I'm taking a long time to answer your question, but it's just a process of realization.
Eric Johnson:You know, for me it was. I'm still working on it and it's interesting because I think it's an antithesis to music. You know, we start off playing when we're kids and it's just pure joy and it's pure innocent exploration. And then we start, maybe we get decent enough to where we play in a band or we get gigs or we get whatever you know, more gigs and tours and record labels, and we start building this encasement of what we think we are. And then we get alluded into that you know, that thing that's not really that real, you know. And then we have to kind of, I think at some point we break it down and realize, wow, it's just about the joy of music, you know, and the other stuff is kind of an antithesis if we buy into it, you know.
Gretchen Menn:That really makes sense, I think. Sometimes I feel like there's something that's really creatively unhealthy about having ourselves reflected back to us too much.
Eric Johnson:Yeah, that's really well said.
Gretchen Menn:It's this invitation for constant ego, both in the positive and negative, and you know people giving voice to your greatest insecurities and then people telling you things that feed something you know that none of us want to have out of control.
Eric Johnson:Absolutely yeah, and I'm still trying to figure that out. How do you go on stage and just completely play or record or whatever, or just sit in, just play from that heart space that doesn't allow all that other influence? Yeah.
Gretchen Menn:Have you figured that out?
Eric Johnson:No, I haven't. And even if you're at the realization that you know I don't have all the answers, or I don't want clemency or a hall pass in life, because I know a few licks on guitar, you know that's. You know you get to the point where you go, wow, you know, I don't want to do that anymore. You know what I mean. It's like you just, it's kind of you kind of have to. Then you don't. I don't know if you have that many, your choices get more limited to return to that, just that plan for fun. But it's a struggle, I think, because and it's it's, it's kind of natural, you know you walk on stage. Oh, is everything going right? Are people enjoying this? Is the sound just right? Am I playing good? You know there's all this luggage that you accrue after you do it long enough, you know, and I think they're really, and there are people that can just like, lose themselves, you know, and or forget about themselves and just be a conduit, you know, in a more, in the highest percentage of way possible, you know.
Gretchen Menn:Do you think that the constant pressing yourself - which I know you do and it shows in all of your music, that you're always kind of pushing into new territory - do you think that flies in the face of kind of just being able to rest in and enjoy what comes most naturally?
Eric Johnson:Yeah, that's a really good question. Yeah, I do, especially if it's not really balanced, and I think I have times where it's not as balanced as it should be. Just pushing, pushing, pushing and it kind of it creates a portion of yourself that you're a little too hard on yourself and then you can just be kind of not as good a friend to yourself as you should always be. So, yeah, I don't, that's really. It's almost like a intersection in the road that I don't know. I don't know what the answer is. You know you got to push yourself because you know your job is to go out there and really make people you know, wow, okay, this is, you know, this is good, you know. But you kind of you're kind of like you're kind of talking about an interesting question of, ultimately, how do you negotiate that intersection? That's really, really I don't know, I'm not sure.
Gretchen Menn:I don't want to believe, I don't think they must be mutually exclusive, because it's like I can't imagine being like resting on laurels of any sort. I mean, and clearly you don't. All my heroes are constantly growing and evolving and yet it's like man, how do you? You know, when we see people who have picked, you know, a lane and really owned it in a beautiful and pure way, I do sense that there's this comfort and this joy that I find that I get little glimmerings of but that I wish I had more of too.
Eric Johnson:Yeah, I guess it's just, I think, maybe not getting too cerebrally obsessed with music, you know, and just keeping it, keeping it on a, you know, a heart level, you know emotional level, you know, or at least respecting that and trying to inspire that. I can't tell you how up it is. For me right now it's like because you want it to be important but you realize it's not that important, you know if that makes sense. So you want to really turn people on and raise their energy or make them feel good or put a smile on their face, but you want to leave it at that. You know you don't want it. Certain muscles you don't want to strengthen, you know certain ones, you do.
Gretchen Menn:I mean, I think you really said something that I think is beautiful and at least this is my thought currently on the matter is that you want something to be important and yet you also recognize it's not too important. But on one hand, I can say your music has been transformational to me, like you're why I picked up a guitar. My life changed because, like I saw, at least what I felt in the moment, was that joy, you know, in hearing you play. That made me think how does one get like that? Like, is he the happiest person in the world like playing like that? Or is he so happy because he can play like that? Whatever it is, I think I need to take guitar lessons, and so while on one hand it's like we don't want to get all we know that that maybe ego doesn't help creativity On the other hand, what I think is so beautiful about music is you don't really harm anybody, like the worst.
Gretchen Menn:So on one hand it can have great meaning for somebody else and change their lives for the better, but you're really not going to hurt anybody either. It's like people listening to music mostly voluntarily, you know, and you can always walk out of that grocery store or that gym or something or put in earplugs if it really bums you out. But if you think of the ratio of potential positives to potential negatives, I don't really know anything else that has such a potentially high value for minimal risk.
Eric Johnson:Oh wow, yeah, Beautiful, yeah, that's true.
Nick Grizzle:I mean, does this have any effect on composition for you when you're writing music? Do you think about these big kind of questions?
Gretchen Menn:Yeah, I guess I always do. I try. There's a tremendous pressure I put on myself anytime I'm writing to not repeat myself and not to fall into some sort of formula which I enjoy. It's part of like we're talking about the process of constantly pushing. It means that I'm very slow to put out albums. In fact, I was looking kind of more carefully at Eric, at your discography of looking at all of the timelines of stuff. I remember back in the day there was all of this like Ah Via Musicom Yizakam was so huge and when is Venus Isle coming out? Then I looked and I'm like it's only six years. Are you kidding me? That's nothing Really. I'm like, oh my gosh.
Eric Johnson:Yeah, that's a... That was quite a crazy deal.
Gretchen Menn:But it's not that long. As a fan, you're like, hey, can I have another album, like yesterday? And then you realize, as an artist, you're like you know, if you want to make good music, if you want to make something that you feel measures up to your own standards and is worth people giving their most valuable asset, which is time, if they're going to give you their time and attention, you don't want to take that lightly. There's a huge responsibility there, and so when I'm composing, I absolutely think about that. And now it seems like having been, you know, the fan that was eagerly wanting Venus Isle to come out, and now I'm like, oh, six years is nothing for an album that good.
Eric Johnson:It's interesting. There's certain balance there, I guess of you know you can get so like oh you know you're looking at the microscope and molecules and take 20 years, you know. Or you can kind of like keep some kind of beacon on where you're achieving what you want, but not going too far. And that was quite a lesson. I mean, I recorded the whole record twice and it's like a whole thing. But there are some songs on there that I've. I actually listened to it recently and liked some of the stuff on it. It was cool.
Gretchen Menn:Can I ask you about one of the pieces that I was listening to and really interested in is I don't know if I'm saying it right, is it Serenidad?
Eric Johnson:Oh wow, Serenidad. Yeah, that was just an improv actually.
Gretchen Menn:Is it really?
Eric Johnson:Yeah.
Gretchen Menn:I've listened to so much of your stuff and I was kind of shocked because when I was listening to it I'm like, wow, like I feel like you're just maybe it's that constantly pushing into new territory. If somebody played that for me, it's like this new aspect of your creative voice.
Eric Johnson:Well, I think that's because there wasn't any time for me to get in the way. I just really just figured I wanted a little touch of a nylon string guitar on that record. So I just we just pressed record and I just kind of I think I went through like two or three times and maybe I had a couple of little vague ideas but just kind of went for a for just just making it up. And then I think at some point I played the songs, maybe twice as long as it is, and so I edited out a couple of sections where I didn't like them.
Gretchen Menn:It's just beautiful. I mean, I have heard so much of your steel string stuff, but the nylon string was absolutely gorgeous. You don't use nails, right?
Nick Grizzle:How do you get the most out of a piece on acoustic guitar?
Eric Johnson:You just when you think the song is working, when it completes the story that you're trying to tell, and you just kind of have to make a I guess, a judgment call, a creative judgment call along if it's doing that or not, just kind of listen to it. Don't just entertain it in your head, but kind of listen to it and see if it's really accomplishing. You know, getting to that end point where you feel it's telling the story that you want to tell. And sometimes that can be like an incredibly simple little thing and, notably in some of those cases, you can mess it up by trying to make it too complicated. So you kind of have to just, you know, listen to the story you're telling and just what works, what's too much, what's not enough, you know.
Gretchen Menn:Okay, on a purely kind of technical level, the tone has to be there. There's nothing to hide behind. So really drawing from the instrument the sounds you imagine in your head, I think is really important, and I think that's why touching base a lot with your heroes helps you not start kind of apologizing or having bad tone become just sort of this like wall paper that you just start to accept in your playing, but really listening carefully and making sure that each note is exactly how you want it to sound. And sometimes that means working in tiny sections, very slowly and being solution oriented, you know, recognizing like why, why does this note sound so crappy if I play it on the G string? And then possibly having to come up with a creative new fingering to you know, so that the melody line maybe your after isn't getting broken by suddenly this huge tonal discrepancy that happens between strings like violin, cello, viola.
Gretchen Menn:Players are very aware and anybody who's writing for them are very aware about the tonal differences of notes produced on different strings.
Gretchen Menn:And as guitar players, I think anybody who's played long enough is inherently aware of it, but I don't hear people talk about it quite so much.
Gretchen Menn:So sometimes coming up with creative fingerings. And then maybe the last thing I'd say is, in this day, where it sometimes is so efficient to work to a grid in Pro Tools or Logic or whatever, tempo dynamics is something that I think a lot of people who have their roots more in rock today you know, not like the Led Zeppelin style, like let's just play to Bonham and we go. But metronomic is not a good thing, I think, especially if you're talking about something as intimate as something you're playing on a solo instrument and so being able to have enough facility with whatever you're playing to really make sure that you're able to have that objectivity in the moment to recognize not just, oh, this is what I'm able to do, but like no, right here, it wants this little push forward, or right here, it wants this little easing up, and so being able to have you know the technical stuff down enough so that you can have that objectivity and be a listener at the same time as a player.
Nick Grizzle:So what do you think goes into getting good tone? Is it a gear thing? Is it like the instrument you're playing? Or maybe how you're playing, like your technique?
Gretchen Menn:You know there are many different components of tone. I believe that tone really comes from yourself and your ears, and your gear and your instrument just determine how easy it is to get the sounds you imagine in your head. Eric is going to sound like Eric. If you hand him something way less cool than all of his old strats and stuff, he's still going to sound like Eric. Jeff Beck is still going to sound like Jeff Beck. Tommy Emmanuel is still going to sound like Tommy Emmanuel. I think it's a question of how hard do you have to fight for it? So to your point.
Gretchen Menn:Certain aspects of you know playing acoustic guitar on stage. There are a lot of things that, at least for me. I don't travel with a sound guy or anything or kind of out of my control. I'll often do things. It's not a fun answer but it's a practical one. If I'm playing like Led Zeppelin stuff and all the different tunings, I'll decide which guitar sounds best and which of Jimmy Page's tunings and then which one you know which one I should play, based on kind of a practical like how quick can I change over between the songs? So every, because I don't have a guitar tech, so everybody's not waiting there watching me tune. I know that Eric will give you a cooler answer. Mine's very practical.
Eric Johnson:I think that's totally right. It really is your intention and your fingering, how you, how the resolution and how you fret the string, as well as pluck the string or pick the string. And then also it's really interesting what Gretchen's saying about the different strings, because that's huge and yeah, in classical players you don't hear a lot of people talk about that on guitar but it is huge. And when you're creating a storyboard of the orchestrated part, it really makes a difference because one of them will be louder than the other or thicker than the other, and that's a big thing. You know. Really, it's the resolution and how you and fretting the note makes a difference, how you fret it with your fingers. So I think it's a process, a trial and error, where you learn the sweet spot of the fretting, the sweet spot of the picking or plucking, but behind that all is really the intention and then the strings you choose to play it on.
Nick Grizzle:So I was. I mean here, I was expecting here's what kind of amp you use, here's the pickups you need and it's just how you play. The instrument is the most influential piece of getting tone.
Eric Johnson:I think really it is, you know, and because people do, like Gretchen would say, and they sound like themselves, no matter what they, what they, what they use. You know, it might might be a little bit more realized on certain gear, but it's, it's really comes from that initial performed intention.
Nick Grizzle:Well, I did want to get into gear a little bit. Eric, you have a signature model. Is it a Martin that you have signature model of? Yeah, and you have a D45 that I've read is very special to you. Let's I want to talk about both those guitars, if we can. What makes that D45 so special to you?
Eric Johnson:Oh well, when I was like 28 years old, I got almost all my guitars stolen and I had a solo acoustic guitar opening for somebody at the opera house in Austin coming up in a few weeks. But my dad bought me that guitar because I got a lot of my guitars stolen and one of which got stolen was a Martin D-41. Actually I had a D-41 that was not there and then I had my own D-41. I had a friend of mine D-41, that got stolen, so I had to give him my D-41 because his got stolen just to make up for that. But then I didn't have an acoustic guitar and he bought me the guitar, and so it's very sentimental to me.
Nick Grizzle:And how about your signature guitar? When did that come about and what went into it and what makes it your signature?
Eric Johnson:Well, Dick Boak at Martin I don't know if he works there anymore, but he helped design that guitar for me and that's a crazy thing, designing a acoustic guitar. I think I probably could have done a better job, just maybe now or maybe just trying some different things other people would suggest, because I think I kind of went for what I thought would work. I mean, it's a cool guitar but I just didn't really know a lot about acoustic guitars when I decided I was thinking more about looks and stuff and I really didn't know.
Nick Grizzle:What would you do differently now?
Eric Johnson:Oh, I think I'd do an OM style, maybe with a cutaway, but maybe try different woods. Yeah, just kind of make sure that it had the right sound through all the notes.
Nick Grizzle:Gretchen, what acoustics do you find yourself reaching for the most when you reach out this one? Is there one that just kind of finds its way into your hands more often than not?
Gretchen Menn:Yeah, um, it kind of depends on what kind of acoustic playing I'm doing. I'm very lucky to have Kenny Hill's personal classical guitar that just kind kind of leant me
Gretchen Menn:I know, oh, I was nuts. I mean, I I had a Kenny Hill guitar. Um, that was, I always said, way more guitar than I am player. But I knew it was kind of a local guy and I was playing a gig actually was Zepperella and and there was this guy who showed up at the merch table and he was like, do you play classical guitar? You know, your left hand looks like you do. And I was like, oh yeah, I have this amazing instrument. I should play more.
Gretchen Menn:You know my typical like, oh, I wish I had more time, you know, not that good, you know. And I mean he's like, oh, I'm a builder from around here and I'm like, wait, we're in Felton, California. I'm like, what's your name? And he's like Kenny Hill and I practically like jumped over the merch table. I'm like, oh, my God, you know. And anyway, so he's a composer. We've become friends. I used his guitar on my second album and then after that he, he, he liked the album and he was like, take it, you know, he'd build himself a second personal guitar. And he's like, take this first one. See what you do with it. It's got true temperament frets, eric. Have you ever played true temperament frets?
Eric Johnson:No, I haven't. Does that mean they're sideways?
Gretchen Menn:They're not fanned. They've got these little like um corrections.
Nick Grizzle:They look like squiggles.
Gretchen Menn:Yes, I don't understand the physics of it. Um, I have all sorts of questions about, like you know, the, the little bit that I understand about temperament. I'm like I'm not sure why it works, but it does sound beautiful and if Kenny Hill's a big fan Eric: oh, wow, I'd love to try one of those.
Gretchen Menn:Gretchen: Oh, next time we're in the same town you have to play this guitar. It's nylon string. It is so gloriously beautiful. Oh, I, I'm. Every time I see him I'm like do you need your guitar back?
Gretchen Menn:and so far. So far he hasn't asked for it back, yeah, um, so that's one that's just incredibly special. My time with it I I will cherish, but I don't deserve to have it. Um, I have a a Stephen Strahm EROS, which he's an also an incredible builder. That was the one that I, uh, I did for the minor swing, um, very non-traditional gypsy jazz rendition, but I learned it and I wanted to do it.
Gretchen Menn:And then recently I've been doing a lot of stuff with with Breed love guitars, which I love because, for you know, Kenny Hill, Stephen Strahm, these are all instruments I couldn't afford if I were not like a professional musician working, you know, in collaboration with companies, and I always feel like there's something kind of irresponsible if I, if you're doing any teaching, um, to not have some affiliation with a company that makes quality products at a reachable price. You know you don't want to be like oh, what guitar do you recommend? Oh, I recommend this $9,000 instrument. It's like who can afford that? I mean not saying they're not worth every penny of it.
Gretchen Menn:The stuff that goes into these high end guitars is huge, but Breed love makes really great stuff. It's sustainably harvested woods, um, they're a nice combination of kind of traditional looking but also with like a lot of beautiful colors, and they're just the nicest people. So I've been really enjoying that and I'm not afraid to take them on stage with me. I think I'd be really nervous to bring, you know, to subject anything super nice, or I shouldn't say super nice, everything. Super nice, super one of a kind to the rigors of the road.
Nick Grizzle:So w hat guitars do you bring on tour, Gretchen? Do you bring the Breed love on tour with you?
Gretchen Menn:That's what I've been using on stage,
Eric Johnson:Yes, I use Maton guitars on stage.
Nick Grizzle:Oh cool yeah, Like Tommy Emmanuel yeah.
Eric Johnson:I mean, I think that first, from playing his and talking him about it, they, they have a great pickup system with a built in mic and it's really it's tough getting a good acoustic sound line, you know. So I think the Matons have a pretty, pretty great pickup system.
Nick Grizzle:I mean, we talked a little bit about what projects you're working on right now, what's in your world creatively yeah.
Eric Johnson:I just got off tour a couple of weeks ago. We just finished a seven week tour and, um yeah, I just uh kind of I got a couple more gigs to do and doing an instructional video, and then I have a couple of more masterclass things to do in August and then we go out for the second leg of this thing in um late August through September.
Nick Grizzle:Gretchen. How about you? What do you got cooking right now?
Gretchen Menn:It's funny. Somebody asked me this the other day and I felt so scattered that I'm like I don't know. Um, I'm doing lots of shows now with uh, with Zepparella, so that's like a Led Zeppelin tribute thing. That's super fun and great education and I'm playing with my original trio. I'm also I was just telling Eric, I'm in school right now. I'm getting a degree in um, media composition. So my undergraduate degree is in, you know, music more general. Um, this will be a master's in media composition. So like composing for, like films, tv games.
Nick Grizzle:Wow, have you done any? Any scores that we should check out?
Gretchen Menn:I've done assignments at this point. Um, but you know, uh, but it's fun. It's actually um it it forced. Having specifications and having a deadline forces you to work with the skills that you have at your immediate disposal, so you don't get the time to sit there and beat yourself up and be like, oh, you should work more on. You know my counterpoint skills or you know my harmonies are boring.
Gretchen Menn:How does Ravel do it? You know, um, uh is you have to work within what you can do. Right then, and it can be really rewarding. I mean, just like Eric was saying with us, serenidad is is when you are improvising or when you're working on this tight timeline. You don't get to get in your own way the same amount. So it's kind of fun. And then I have something coming up next year that's really exciting. I don't know if you know Steven Mackey. He's a an incredible composer. He's an electric guitarist who's been incorporating electric guitar into a compositional context since, like the nineties. He teaches at Princeton. He's done all sorts of cool stuff with, like Kronos Quartet Quartet and really cool things. Um, he's writing a guitar concerto and I guess I'm going to be performing it in Salt Lake City in almost exactly a year, so I have a year to freak out about this.
Nick Grizzle:Very cool stuff. Oh man, we're coming to the end. Uh, thank you again. Thank you so much for your time and I wanted to leave it open if either of you had questions for each other.
Eric Johnson:I want to hear this stuff that Gretchen's working on. I want to hear the concerto and stuff that sounds wonderful. That's going to be great. Was that with orchestra Gretchen?
Gretchen Menn:Yeah, I guess it's going to start out. He's composing it now. It's going to start on classical guitar. He already sent me some sketches for it and then it's going to move to electric guitar. But he likes to do lots of wacky stuff with prepared guitar and slide. He had me send every video. He's like show me every technique you can do. I'm like, oh boy, okay, I'm not scared.
Eric Johnson:That's going to be great. I can't wait to hear that Wow.
Gretchen Menn:I have a question for you, Eric, too. I'm curious. I've read so many interviews of you and you get opportunities to talk a lot about your gear and everything like that. What do you love talking about music? What do you wish you had more opportunities to put out there?
Eric Johnson:Oh, just trying to find that beautiful tone that inspires you to play that. It's not really. It's not about thinking about the gear. It's just about finding ways to free yourself and see what possibilities come from that - being more receptive than proactive, sometimes. Just discussing what are the things that make that happen, talking about all the little pieces that maybe inspire you to get more in that vortex.
Gretchen Menn:Has there ever been any great moments of breakthrough or great advice that has really helped open something up for you?
Eric Johnson:Yeah, I think a lot of people will say hey, you know, some of my favorite stuff you do is the improv stuff that you don't have time to think about or put too many fingerprints on it. I've always kind of keep in the back of my head what I toured with BB King and he told me. He said be yourself, find that unique light that you shine, that nobody else does, because you always can find players that play great and there's thousands, and now with YouTube, I mean there's no end to it and to kind of find that unique pulse that you have that really exemplifies you. That's unique.
Gretchen Menn:When do you feel musically most kind of in connection with that part of you, do you think?
Eric Johnson:When I'm not thinking about it too much.
Gretchen Menn:I think.
Eric Johnson:I think when I'm not thinking. I'm not interested. I'm using the mind to not think. There's the conundrum right there, you know. Right, yeah, not thinking about it, I think, and just letting it happen.
Nick Grizzle:Thank you